The combat looks lackluster.

Discussion in 'Gameplay Discussions' started by Mishee, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. climbatize

    climbatize Ascendant

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    This! Plus id actually like to get my hands on the game and experience the combat before judging.
     
  2. Squirrel

    Squirrel Ascendant

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    Honestly there is a lot of skill weaving (at least for gunslinger), besides the delay from ping I thought it was pretty good. Once you level up and stuff things are much less stand there and shoot, there's lots of moving and only channels on high damage skills (which is to be expected).
     
  3. Deioth

    Deioth Ascendant

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    Look at some videos of its combat. Looks (and sounds, depending on the streamer hammering his keys) like tab target. There is no "faster and smoother" tab target out there. WoW feels like Rift feels like ArcheAge, they just make maybe some minor tweaks, but it's all about managing cooldowns and resources rather than anything especially skill based. There's very little that can be done from a tab target perspective to significantly improve the action feel.

    If they weren't going to do Tera, I'd have hoped they at least made a cleaner iteration of BDO's combat, or perhaps Skyforge. BDO was clunk as **** but I loved the concept of how you used your skills, it wasn't hotbar management for days and was extremely intuitive (except for when it was clunky af, wouldn't transition properly for half my skills as zerker without completely removing hand from keyboard). Skyforge had IMO the absolute best soft-target combat I've ever experienced despite its other game design flaws and piss poor, well, everything balance. It felt responsive, paced well, and felt actiony without being as precision-based as Tera. Skyforge, for what it's worth, is also a game that featured an alternative to (though not completely breaking from) the Holy Trinity which was cool. If I had people to play with at the time and it wasn't such a shallow game I'd have kept going for a while longer, I rather enjoyed it.
     
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  4. Szmer

    Szmer Ascendant

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    There is no "Tab key" to switch in A:IR. You select the target automaticly or by LMB. Cooldowns and resources has nothing to do with the targeting system.
     
  5. xDrac

    xDrac Ascendant

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    That's very wrong to me I felt like archeage had one of the most engaging and tactical combat systems I have played, the way you could dodge spells and skills, all the maneuverbility you had and all the things you could do to outplay your opponent. It very much felt actiony to me despite being called tab target.
     
  6. MISFIT

    MISFIT Ascendant

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    Yep. Shame about the non-action combat. I admit that I've been completely spoiled by action combat. The tab target stuff seems tedious now. Hope the other mechanics make up for it.
     
  7. TheFirstOrder

    TheFirstOrder Ascendant

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    There is no class balance ( physical damage classes are stronger than cloth user mages or any of other classes ) at AA and AA - Archeage depends on gear heavily in pvp so if you are no life mega multi account owner or p2w player you get the best items and you can 1 shot or 1-2-3 clicks every player in AA pvp solo by yourself in the all of the dead EU servers in Archeage, %90 of players are playing physical damage classes only. In addition, there is no pvp and pve content at all in the current version of the game on open world & 40 players player nation guild dominates the whole server as owning the x6 castles and get the all loot and golds by themself in every EU servers too.

    I still don't get people when thy still say " AA open world pvp is best bla bla bla " while all of the evidence is showing the opposite... And in AA, the open world is so boring that there is not enough content for +3 years too. We play the same mechanics for +3 years and we still don't get anything new too. Trion closed the cross server arena at 4.0 patch; because there is bug as usual for every patch thy bring (by Trion)... #### Trion really thy ruined the good potential Archeage really. If AIR developers don't make region block then I plan to play AIR in 2018 or 2019 when it comes to EU.


    Shortly, if AIR doesn't make the same mistakes of these mmorpgs we are mentioning in their mmorpg then everything will be fine. In my opinion, and if you ask me what kind of pvp we should get or see in AIR is the PVP System of the Lineage 2 which is still the best pvp system on the open world.
     
  8. xDrac

    xDrac Ascendant

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    I can agree with that. But AIR has factions and Lineage does not, it makes the whole thing a bit more complicated.
     
  9. BionicFox

    BionicFox Ascendant

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    I personally really dislike having to hold a mouse button to move the camera around , and the tab target and point and click combat feels really boring and slow paced to me. I was really excited to play AIR when I saw the trailer but after learning that it would not feature action combat like Black Desert Online or Blade and Soul I was very disappointed, at least Bless is trying to improve its combat so I am looking forward to it more than to AIR now. Best wishes for AIR and the community though, I think we all were expecting a bit more than just an improved version of the old combat system, at least I was.
     
  10. Sera

    Sera Guest

    Air does not use tab to select nor cycle through possible targets.

    Target selection is done through line of sight. Utilising for some skills a soft lock targeting system as is the same in TERA/BDO, c.f. Tera Mystic, BDO witch/wizard. Other skills in Air use a telegraph system, c.f. wildstar.

    Tab will hard lock your current soft target.

    Some skills in Air have a CD, as do some skills in TERA and BDO. Other skills in Air are multicast (No CD and No cast time), you can spam away as you can in BDO.

    What makes Air's targeting system harder is the lack of reticule on the HUD. I.e. trying to select a target for healing.
     
  11. TheFirstOrder

    TheFirstOrder Ascendant

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    I plan to be a healer, but many people say that " hard to lock to heal people " so how do we heal other players or even how to heal ourself too ? from the closed beta videos I watched, I almost don't see any healers around. It seems it is the reason you mentioned at your comment. Let's hope that they fix it :(.
     
  12. Laguna

    Laguna Ascendant

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    The new trend tend indeed to be Free Aiming playstyle with fast-paced action combat but MMO with Tab-Targeting playstyle still remain the most famous and played in the market. They're just different but both still have their pro and cons, none of them are outdated even if some players only swear by the actual trend considering everything anterior unworthy but it is very subjective and mostly wrong.

    Regarding Tab-Targeting playstyle, it is usually offering a better overrall visibility on what's happening around you thanks to its pace also giving more time for better strategies. When everything is too fast, too nervous, you don't see everything in the same manner and don't have the exact same control of the situation. Things can highly degenerate when too many players are on your screen in fast-paced action MMO games, at least BDO looked pretty confusing to some point.
     
  13. Mishee

    Mishee Ascendant

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    Where do you get the sources that tab targeting is the most played right now? How is it offering a better visibility, how do you know this? When everything is too fast, too nervous, you don't see everything in the same manner and don't have the exact same control of the situation." This is only for you, I hate when **** is slow.
     
  14. Laguna

    Laguna Ascendant

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    WoW and FFXIV:ARR are still the most played MMO of 2017 and both are Tab-Targeting, it is already well known in the middle. Also BDO is not very entertaining on Twitch regarding how repetitive the game is by nature. It is not subjective and the popularity rating speaks for itself atleast to notice a general enthusiasm toward this playstyle in this genre.

    Though I believe we all have a different perception of the action playstyle amongst MMORPG and, as you may have noticed in my previous message, I don't think that fast-paced action playstyle fits better to this genre (atleast not in its current form).
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  15. Lientje

    Lientje Ascendant

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    I feel like the combat is TOO slow.
    I don't really mind if the combat isn't fast and flashy (like BDO for example), but when I saw videos of A:IR it just felt incredibly slow and boring.
    I think it could be a combat system that dies down fairly fast, especially since most other MMOs are overshadowing A:IRs combat system.
     
  16. Himmelweiss

    Himmelweiss Ascendant

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    I hate action-based MMOs, simply because we already do have way too many of them.

    I am glad that AIR decided to have some slower combat system with atleast an TAB-Locking System.
     
  17. xDrac

    xDrac Ascendant

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    Agreed, I often feel like "action combat" is a bit too hectic and "stressful" if that makes any sense. I can see myself grinding away for hours on end with a more "relaxing" and "simple" combat system such as tab targeting. Boot up some nice music and go with it. If it was action combat and I'd always need to be at the edge of my seat to grind out properly, I'm not sure how long I could keep that up. But in the end I guess it all comes down to preference. Still happy to see other people prefer the old and classic way though ;x
     
  18. Talh

    Talh Ascendant

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're all still speculating here, right? We don't really know the combat system? (Can someone link me if there is an official announcement or demo on it). From what I saw from gameplay footage, it looked like tab-targeting, but it was like Wildstar where some skills would show an area on the ground and then you could dodge.

    I played BDO extensively, and can say, that game was fun as hell in small-scale combat. Before gear started playing a huge factor with mediah 2 expansion, every fight felt like skill vs skill in PvP. However, I believe someone said it earlier in the thread, node wars were clusterf***s with not much skill and more "who has more wizards to put blizzard/meteors down?"

    I'm not an expert, I just know my personal preference, and I'd like to see tab targeting with most skills having notifiers on the ground where they are coming from so you can dodge. Or just really good particles so I can see the skills coming, know what they are, and be able to dodge.

    Closing thoughts: if I want pure skill-based PvP I won't be playing an MMORPG there's this new genre called MOBA (sarcasm) that true PvPers already know is top-dog. Mob mechanics to make grinding less boring, dungeons with different mechanics, good large scale sieges/wars, community, and crafting/economy is what defines the MMORPG genre. Not the type of combat.
     
  19. Sera

    Sera Guest

    Air does not use tab to select nor cycle through possible targets. I have played over 60hrs in CBT 1 & 2

    Target selection is done through line of sight. Utilising for some skills a soft lock targeting system as is the same in TERA/BDO, c.f. Tera Mystic, BDO witch/wizard. Other skills in Air use a telegraph system, c.f. wildstar.

    Tab will hard lock your current soft target.

    Some skills in Air have a CD, as do some skills in TERA and BDO. Other skills in Air are multicast (No CD and No cast time), you can spam away as you can in BDO.

    What makes Air's targeting system harder is the lack of reticule on the HUD. I.e. trying to select a target for healing. This has been a common feedback from Korean players, both for healing and in combat, as you have what appears to be a field-of-viewin from of you that selects the nearest target in the fov, this means that if another mob/player crosses the fov your target changes.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2018
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  20. Chi

    Chi Ascendant

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    It's not so much the targeting system that drew people in.

    • It was having a lot of maneuverability over your character. Unlike gw2 that had one generic dodge button. You had multiple ways to dodge and block skills.
    • Your skills have cooldown yes, but no traditional hotbar where you only hit 1234 1234 until the mob dies. It was combo tied to movement keys and mouse. Which actually translated really well to anyone playing on a controller!
    • Open word and graphics were of course a factor, it had a lot to draw in until you hit the RNG and gear > skill.
    People are drawn to games with fast fluid feeling combat. Like devil may cry and bayonetta style. That was the appeal.

    Seeing a good combat system and wanting to see it multiplayer is nothing new. At this point if the combat is already going to feel slow- you might as well go to a game with more updates, proven class balance and a strong player base.

    At least I think thats why if theres not something new and engaging to try out, people WILL eventually fall back to the older games (wow, ffxv).

    All in all if one of the major systems is fighting...you just want to have fun with it right? And hitting left click 1234 1234 1234. Isn't fun anymore imo.

    Even if its slower, air needs to be more engaging than that is a think the main worry when looking at videos for it.
     

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