Teaser - Single Player Dungeons Part 1

Discussion in 'News & Announcements' started by CM Praballo, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Kailis

    Kailis Ascendant

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    I literally just registered to say how hyped I am about this game not dying and seeing these posts teasing what we will (hopefully soon) see in game.

    Also, Eternal, I don't know why you seem to hate this game. I mean, you talk like you know what's going on and what's being made (or re-made).

    We all know the same, there's many things we don't know, and you're already hating the game based on... What?

    If you don't like how this game looks, then well, there's many other games out there.

    P. S.: Don't get me wrong, I accept your opinion. I just don't get where you think you get all this information you talk about when saying what the game lacks.
     
  2. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    @Kailis The game is Instanced-based with the persistence in the Open World exactly like the rest of the failed MMORPGs where they took this design from. Most of the activities that you will do in this game are Instanced, this is not like Black Desert, the only resemblance this game have to that game is it's graphics, that's it.
    I am not a clairvoyant and I don't talk based on precognition nor do I claim to possess such an ability, I talk based on what I exactly observed from present gameplay and information. I can understand Korean as well so I can understand what is being presented. Even without the knowledge of Korean, it should be fairly obvious to you that this game is Instanced and Session based if you are to arranged the existing information. This is something that you cannot see because you are blind and care only about certain aspects of this game.
    And seriously, you consider this as what? "My opinion"? I think you missed what I have already stated. This is an MMORPG, what kind of audience should this game deliver to?
    This game feels lackluster to me and to MMORPG audiences in general because of the gameplay experience that it delivers. I am not talking about the Combat here, I am not talking about the fast-paced here, I am talking about common MMO features where this game is failing so bad all-inclusively because the design derived from business considerations and not from the willingness to deliver good MMORPG experience to it's audience. Tell me exactly where you fit in this scene? Are you part of their Marketing Team or are you a Consumer? As a Consumer, I am intrigued that you don't care about the quality of the product that you will potentially deal with as a paying Customer.
    I am not impress with the design of this game. This looks exactly like a standard Korean Modern MMORPG design in terms of gameplay and it boggles me how they didn't learn from the failures of that design brought by it's common flaws and didn't for once make the necessary amendments and/or revisions to that design.
    I want to play an "MMORPG", but this product that they are introducing are not designed for this audience exclusively. It's disappointing, and I'm sorry to say this, but your hope here is just wishful-thinking! Go tell me something based on facts and realistic factors,
    1.) I want to know your impression of this game based on present gameplay and gameplay information.
    2.) What do you think about the gameplay design of the game.
    If you want to have a meaningful discussion about this topic, let's discuss it here. You are claiming that my information are predicted and irrelevant, when in fact, it is what it is based on present gameplay information. Are you seriously that blind? If I claim it as bad MMORPG design, it's in contrast with a game with good MMORPG design and delivery. Where did I sourced my information? Actuality and contrast. Without making a comparison, how can you possibly tell the condition of the game? The term "good" is a concept of distinctiveness in which do not exist in a singular object alone. You wanna talk? Then you can start telling me what you think!
     
  3. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    If you want me to elaborate and expand more on what I consider to be "lacking" when it should be perceivable already, then by all means required.

    1.) This game is very Linear in terms of Progression and activities regarding that. The game is designed solely of Vertical Progression because their goal is only to capture and hold the attention of the player-base, hence Instant experience. MMORPGs should also have Horizontal Progression to deliver immersive gameplay. This is what they lack and would never consider!

    2.) They want to rush people to end-game as fast as possible so the game is all about the Instant experience, acquisition of Gear Score and Min/Max-ing, and PVP. Levelling is not a part of the Progression System in this game, as according to Devs, it only takes 30 hours to get to Max Level and the process was designed only to teach you the game mechanically, systematically, and interactively (UI and Controls), this is according to the Project Director 김 형준 (흉준?), whatever the hell his name is.

    3.) The game is Session and Event-based, not Seamless-based. This is not healthy for the game as it creates a routine, dictates activities and participation, and therefore creates a limited and repetitive gameplay activities.

    4.) The game is Instance-based because Progression-activities are in there, with the persistence of the game in the Open World. Your participation in the game is your activities in the game, if they are Instance-based, then they are linear and repetitive, delivering nothing in those activities but Instant experience, taking away the immersion and social aspects in the activities because they are private Instanced activities.

    5.) According to the Devs, they want to design this game to be more PVP-based, not PVE-based. This is a PVP-based MMO. What does that tell you about the Contents? It tells you that Contents will never be quantity-based but dynamically player created and that is the direction of the Gameplay. I have yet to see Depths to the Contents of this game. On a game like A:IR, I cannot accept it if it will about the Gameplay than a Progression System.

    I could go on to write an entire chronicle, but these are enough information already. This tells me that they designed this game to deliver Instant experience as much as possible to cater to all types of audiences in the expense of other experiences that they should be delivering as well and more significantly as this is supposed to be an MMORPG. Overall, they are failing to deliver a good quality product appropriate for the MMORPG-genre because it's failing to meet the expectations of that genre. If you think this game should be about fun Instant experience and that alone, then you are wrong because this is supposed to be an MMORPG. On my decade of playing just MMORPGs, this game design is disappointing to see!

    If nothing changed regarding game design, I would like to ask you a question; What makes you think this game will be different and will have a different outcome?
     
  4. Kjjing

    Kjjing Ascendant

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    Peut-être que ce jeu n'est pas fait pour toi, tout simplement ! D'autres jeux orientés sandbox sont plus à même de te satisfaire. Il y en a suffisamment sur le marché pour faire son choix. On ne sait pas grand chose sur les activités HL que propose le jeu et rien des changements effectués depuis les retours de la première Cbt. Pour le moment, les nouvelles se font au compte-gouttes, mais cela à suffit à éveiller ma curiosité, alors j'attends de voir avant de crier aux loups. Ils prennent le temps, c'est plutôt bon signe. Ce que propose le jeu est peut-être classique, c'est vrai, mais si c'est bien fait et que ça tient la route, je prends, nombreux sont ceux qui ont voulu innover, ils sont cassés les dents ! C'est une grande boite, ils ont les moyens financiers et humains de nous faire un bon jeu contrairement à d'autres.
     
  5. Strider

    Strider Ascendant

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    Love the idea of single player dungeons hopefully these will be different from group based dungeons and not just 'easier versions' of 5 man instances.

    Man really hoping AIR delivers as its almost last chance saloon with me and mmos
     
  6. Gabsuviu

    Gabsuviu Ascendant

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    +1 for Solo dungeons, this will make the game more balanced in terms of players types, I am a more solo person myself and I like this idea very much
     
  7. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    @Kjjing This game is not a "Classique", it's of Modern MMORPG design, there is a polar difference between the two. Even World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth is not a Traditional MMO, they have simplified that game to the point that it's not fun anymore, it's not the same as it used to be before. It lost a lot of it's features that made that game very successful and very addicting from the past, these are root features and design characteristics of MMORPGs before it transitioned to Modern MMORPG design which share less of those features, a design based on the shift of trends toward more Instant Activities and Gameplay, Linear and Vertical Progression, Casual-based Systems (an example of these are the QoL and Progression System), Skill-based rather than Time-based and Intellectual-based design of Progression, Session-based Gameplay than Seamless-based, a plethora of Limitations, a Free to Play Business Model, and a shift to more accessible and profitable platforms rather than capable platforms. Activision Blizzard have degenerated to a lying joke when it stopped caring for it's fans and playerbase that believed in them in the first place to whom they owe their success and reputation. There is no such thing as a "Blizzard quality standard" when the company stopped caring about the quality of their products since long time ago and solely make business decisions. You are not gonna fool anyone with your excuse with Diablo Immortal, it's obvious that you only care about profits rather than to deliver quality design for profits! What kind of quality gameplay and experience can a Mobile platform deliver but something inferior to the PC?! Nobody will play something as demanding as the MMORPG-genre in a Mobile Phone, the PC platform (whether it is Desktop or Laptop) is suited for this genre! You are dumbing down the genre to cater to more audiences and to create more potential profits in the expense of the quality of the game which should be the deciding factor of profit! As a Consumer, I will no longer support and tolerate these corrupt practices in this widely corrupted Industry! Give us a quality product based on quality decisions or I will not pay a cent for it!
    There are companies out there that are innovating, considering general MMORPG designs as this is an MMORPG, without giving up the quality of the game because of business decisions such as the shift of trends that have nothing to do with the genre, majority casual and wider target audiences that far exceed the genre, and considering a Business Model to support it that is equitable to the gameplay and system of the game. Unfortunately, not a single AAA company is doing it, not even Blizzard and Square Enix themselves are willing to consider and do it! To brief you more on Square Enix, they too are only after the money when their new MMO project is all about Final Fantasy XI Mobile co-developed with Nexon. Not a single company but the Kickstarters in which I would rather gamble than to accept what is already a definite bleak future. A probability exists on the ones who are willing and are actually changing the broken system, a definite outcome is all you can expect from a design based on the same system that we already lived with it for over a decade! As years go by, you will not be able to convince even a vampire with such design! This is almost 2019, we cannot accept something like this anymore!
    I am observing the development of this game and is willing to look at the fully-developed game when that time comes but I am not stupid to bet in it as I'm already disappointed with the design of this game and already have an idea where this is gonna go. If we are speaking about MMOs, certain Kickstarters are more likely to get it right as their decisions are based on quality design. This is an MMORPG, ofcourse it should be designed as an MMORPG! The Modern MMORPG design evolved from business considerations, not quality considerations, what is currently standard doesn't mean the design is reasonable! If you are not willing to give us what we deserve, then I will look elsewhere!
    Look at Tera, the Progression System in that game is nothing but Vertical; you get full Slaughter Gear, you Upgrade it to raise you iLvl, then you get full Guile Gear which is of higher Tier and then do the same process, climbing up to higher Tiers of Imperator => Ambush => ..... => BiS. This is an example of Vertical Progression, the Character Development is Linear because the game have no Horizontality, therefore it lacks the qualities of an MMORPG such as Intellectuality (making choices which is a basic feature of an RPG)! Tera was only designed to deliver Instant experience and impression! It's selling point according to them is nothing but it's Combat and Graphics! Does that make an entire MMORPG?! That game doesn't even have any Contents and Progression System is only Vertical! It was already a disappointment to me, do not reincarnate the same incompetence again!
     
  8. Laguna

    Laguna Ascendant

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    Solo dungeons should only be available for the main story in order to learn more about it without being forced to play with other players in order to see all cutscenes and follow the narration smoothly BUT they shouldn't be available as a way to grind stuff and gear up your character.

    If Bluehole is seriously considering to add solo dungeons to farm and gear up then it's only going to split the community even more while channels are already implemented and, I'm pretty sure, most of us definitely don't want to see the overall playerbase even more divided than it already is in the MMO genre nowadays. Gear rewards in solo dungeons would obviously not be Best in Slot gear otherwise that would make no sense though, as long as you can earn a few things inside it, a lot of players are probably going to do that for hours and I can already see a negative impact on the game.

    All I can do right now is hoping for Bluehole to not disrecpect this genre and not add too many counterproductive elements for the sake of the massievely, social aspect and community.
     
  9. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    Take a look at this video for once,

    If Developers cannot learn anything from this (and it's already obvious that they are unwilling to learn), then perhaps we the Consumers can, and maybe someday (after all these years that passed-by) finally learn how to protect our interest.
    All you have to do is make this game true to the genre and it will appeal to the audience of that genre! That's all you have to do, but it seems like the Investors' interest is all you considered with the design of your game. Nobody here will protect the interest of the Consumers but we the Consumers ourselves! There is an ongoing reduction on the quality of games for over a decade, not just in the MMO genre, but the whole Video Game Industry, and this can be explained through a single reason; The profit of games is not based on their quality, there are games that are cheaper and less extensive to produce but are highly more profitable, these are the types of games that they are marketing to us. We are not paying for the quality of the game, we are paying to keep them rich. Unless you do something to protect your interest, you will continue to remain in this loop! I am not going to play this game if it doesn't stay true to the genre! I am not going to play this game if it remains to be Free to Play! I am not giving them any money just to keep them rich without delivering quality!
    A lot of you suckers still continue to complain about a game or the genre in general but still continue to support the same Devs/Publishers. Look at what you are doing to Nexon, do you people ever learn?!
    You people are retarded, you are one of the problem in this Industry! How can you expect to protect your interest when you are doing something contrary to it? You continue to treat games (especially an MMO which is different and requires commitment) as just "games" for fun, the Devs delivered, so what right do you have to complain? It is you who is not asking for any quality! An MMO is a time sink and investment, ofcourse it has to be quality! An MMO should deliver perpetual experiences, not Instant fun experiences, this is not a Battle Royale or a Nintendo game, this is a longer-term activity that have to keep you interested.
    I am stunned how the quality of games are being butchered just for companies to maximize their profits! What shocked me the most is the playerbase continue to not learn from this landscape that remained steady for over a decade!
    If you want games to only be designed for "fun", then you are only asking them to deliver on the Interface. No wonder this Industry is so corrupt! Do you know that games sell more to people who are less interested in games at all? The state of this Industry have already became a joke that interpretation of it is an alterity.
     
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  10. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    In this Industry, there is no standardization of price, not even as an estimated idea or concept, they can set their price however they want. How about the work and fundings that go with developing the game, they differ, so why can't we see this difference in the prices?
    This is why you don't get any quality product. As long as something sells, that's all that matters, it's definitely not about the quality especially in this industry with no standard prices.
    You can assign a value based on the quality of a game and this value reflects it's price, but in reality, that's not how this Industry works. Here in this Industry, there is no value to quality in whatever regards, what matters is what sells and higher ROI performance (less cost of investment also contribute to higher ROI).
    This is how the Industry works, ofcourse they will never consider quality. If they don't consider quality, I will never consider their game! If corruption is standard in this Industry, it doesn't mean we should tolerate it even if the companies do. If the Video Game Industry shall collapse, I would rather see it collapse entirely out of it's existence rather than to see it continue to survive with it's corrupt system standard in the Industry due to lack of standardization.
     
  11. Kjjing

    Kjjing Ascendant

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    @Eternal. Le joueur que je suis a suffisamment traîné ces guêtres sur les MMO pour reconnaître que les jeux sortis ces dernières années, sont de moins en moins exigeants. Les seuls qui pouvaient sortir du lot ont succombé à l’appel du P2W. Référence personnelle à Acheage sur lequel j’avais mis beaucoup d’espoir mais qui malheureusement a cédé, lui aussi à l’appât du gain. Il faut se faire une raison, l’industrie du jeu vidéo, avec l’arrivée des tablettes et portable, a dû s’adapter pour répondre aux besoins et aux envies de tous ces nouveaux joueurs. Ils sont là pour gagner de l’argent que ça nous plaise ou non.
    Vous prenez l’exemple de Diablo : cela en est le parfait exemple. La communication a été désastreuse et ils ont déçu de nombreux fans. Mais pourquoi se priveraient-ils d’un tel marché. Ils veulent toucher d’autres joueurs, que les joueurs PC et compléter leurs gammes, on ne peut pas leur en vouloir.

    Personnellement, je souhaiterais que A:ir soit un monde entièrement ouvert, où les rencontres pve croiseraient les rencontres pvp. La meilleure expérience pour moi sur un jeu, vraiment massivement multi joueurs. Mais si pour la viabilité du projet, il faut quelques instances, pour satisfaire certains, je ne suis pas contre.
    Je me dis qu’avec l’engouement des jeux mobiles, la flopée de MMO génériques sortie ces dernières années devrait enfin cesser pour laisser le champ libre à des projets PC plus ambitieux et ciblés. Je pense que Air peu tirer son épingle du jeu.
     
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  12. Yumika

    Yumika Ascendant

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    @kijjing je suis tout à fait de ton avis. (Concernant diablo Immortal c'est clairement pour pénétré le marché chinois.) Comme tu le dit on a été noyé par des MMORPG très générique les premier près annonce G-Star présente énormément de MMO Mobile, Il y a clairement une carte à jouer pour un studio motivé de prendre une place dominante sur la scène du MMORPG occidentale qui ce fait vieillissant, A:ir a une originalité de gameplay, un type d univers qui a rarement été exploiter pourquoi pas lui ?
     
  13. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    @Kjjing @Yumika I think all of us can see the clear picture of where this industry is heading and where it has headed. We already came to an agreement regarding that conclusion and I think all of us have described it accurately. What is different however and totally different is our views regarding this shift in the dynamics. Let's narrow our assessment down only to the MMORPG genre since the Video Game Industry as a whole is a much wider scope of discussion. The continuous changes that are happening in this genre have all been nothing but a negative overview to me, they are not by any means 'beneficial' to the genre. You see, the term "change" only describes the alteration to the characteristics of our subject. You can't add further meanings without adding further information to something that is ambiguous as the term. "Development", "growth", "improvement", "innovation", "advancement", "evolution", etc. are all technical terms to describe rate of change towards the positive direction. Rate of change, the term "rate" means this is a "vector". A vector has a direction, there is no such thing as a single direction, such a term will not exists without variation, in Mathematics, we determine this by the positive or negative values of the variable. Direction can also happen negatively if you are not already aware. If "deceleration" is the correct technical word to describe negative acceleration (an acceleration in the negative direction), what do you think should be the correct technical term to describe the rate of change that is occurring in the MMORPG genre and the Industry that surrounds it? We already know and therefore I am more careful with my words! Changes are indeed happening and I don't think it is happening in the right direction, and what's worse are they haven't been in any way 'advantageous' to the genre. Development can only occur in one direction, the 'positive' direction, you can't possibly expect something have improved through negative results.
    I strongly disagree that what's happening is by any means technically a 'development' to the genre! It only takes a comparison of the contrasts of already existing topics in order for us to correctly evaluate this rate of change, it's already obvious.
     
  14. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    A "downward spiral" is a technical word that I like to use to describe the trend of MMORPGs.
     
  15. Alyria

    Alyria Ascendant

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    I believe that solo dungeons can have their place in this genre, but they need to be implemented carefully so not to divert from the true intended nature of MMORPGs.
     

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