Pay To Win.... Like Black Desert Online... and Even WORSE

Discussion in 'Gameplay Discussions' started by kent jason basalan, Apr 21, 2019.

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  1. Shion

    Shion Ascendant

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    Mmm, not entirely. Rift went P2W/P, LOTR, SWOTR, NeverWinter, EvE Online, Star Trek Online - i think this are all Western MMO, beside WoW which still uses subscription, that went there too.

    Our Market is not that different from Asian. Game companies learned to Milk player all around the world ;)
     
  2. MrStealYoMMO

    MrStealYoMMO Ascendant

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    who the hell said inventory expansions were p2w? LOL. You better leave the forums if you don't know what people are talking about and if you have hard time reading.
     
  3. YOLO

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    i am a BDO player a game distributed by kakao, i have sank 9k dollars going full PEN (end game gear) but there is not much more people to grief in BDO anymore, many people quit after kakao going back in their word of not going p2w, so i am wondering how long is A:IR gonna bait players before going full p2w??? and please kakao we know eachother from years of BDO dont try to fool me into thinking A:IR wont be p2w, just give me a date so i can come and burn my visa to buy endgame gear and start griefing.
     
  4. YOLO

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    thats exactly the way it works in BDO, wow i am amazed to see they copy pasted BDO to such a degree, to be honest with you guys i would GTFO of there ASAP, you are wasting your time
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  5. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    The way Asiasoft (Playpark) monetizes their games is exactly similar to how Electronics Extreme monetizes theirs. We don't have any MMO publisher that serves Southeast Asia but these Thai companies, they rent dedicated servers, and partner with local company/s and distributor/s and global ones (like SEAGM) that will handle the payment methods (physical game cards and digital). I was a customer of these companies in the past and I used SEAGM to top-up because I live in the West. You want to know how these companies handle publishing? Cash Shop items are directly tradeable in the game and it is a trend in Southeast Asia! Playpark doing it to A:IR is not new to me and I wouldn't be surprised! To Southeast Asian players, they do not make a big deal about it unlike us here in the West -- it's something that they can tolerate. No one in Asia has been vocal against Pay to Win, but they have always been vocal about other things like the server, lag, and bots. If they will continue to be tolerant of Pay to Win and say nothing, nothing will change in that side of the world.

    How can they be vocal about cheating, and nothing about Pay to Win which both affect gameplay? 你们疯了吗?难得有一次机会只为了上帝而想,你们都不能连这样做!真是天大的笑话!
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  6. YOLO

    YOLO Ascendant

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    i dont know to be honest, but i am considering going back to gw2, the last complete, not p2w/microtransactions game designed so player actually have fun with it, it has its cons but i never had to worry about predatory/casino marketing tactics while i played it
     
  7. Lugdunum

    Lugdunum Ascendant

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    Probably the best thing you can do, this is one of the most valuable MMORPG on the market at this time with Final Fantasy 14, World of Warcraft and TESO.

    Middle range valuable : Tera

    RIP : WildStar, Everquest

    Others : Korean P2W with unacceptable gameplay mechanics to avoid.
     
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  8. YOLO

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    to be honest i am considering the exact same thing
     
  9. Ali_Dire

    Ali_Dire Ascendant

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    but any review that i saw said that it has good cash shop ??
     
  10. YOLO

    YOLO Ascendant

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    review are paid by the game developers and publishers, ofc they would say that.
     
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  11. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    Really?

    Is it good that you can sell Cash Shop Items directly in the Auction House for Gold?
    Is it good that we have Advance Enhancing for 100% chance and all it takes is Gold to do be able to enhance through that? (you can even buy the Floating Stones via AH)
    Is it good that you can pay for Repairs through Cash Shop in which your Gears will suffer from Max Durability and Durability loss from doing an Advance Enhancement or failure from Normal Enhancement?

    You are misinformed man! The Thai version was so Pay to Win. But ofcourse, you are gonna white-knight the game and drink your own cool-aid with your optimism, so I don't give a f*** whether you would believe me or not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  12. Ali_Dire

    Ali_Dire Ascendant

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    oooo i didnt think about that ... but one of them really said bad thing about it in of his videos , then when he made another he said some good things like how the bad things are gone , everything is more optimized than before and this kind of stuff...i dont know tho...


    doesnt WoW allow the players to buy subscribtion tokens with REAL MONEY and then sell in auction ?
    the part that you can repair with money is bad tho, reminds me of some f2p shooters...
    and who the f*** you think you're talking to dude i dont even know what the hell white knight means i just told you what i heard, not what i think, stop your aggerasive behaviour you're just typing some letters behind a computer in your nice little room.
     
  13. YOLO

    YOLO Ascendant

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    well considering A:IR bussines model is a copy paste or Black desert online bussines model, you can just drop by BDO forums and ask how the pearl shop has influenced the game :)
     
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  14. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    So the part where you can repair with money is terrible, but being able to buy Gold with money is acceptable because WoW is doing it? I've always been critical of Activision Blizzard on their greedy practices, and no, I don't consider them as gods whom I shall kneel down to. They have became a despicable company right now that I no longer have any respect for them and their games. If WoW is so good, why is it continuing to lose players? It is a complete piece of garbage and it is the reason why I don't play it! So they are re-releasing Classic on a progression server? Do you really think that they can dominate the MMO genre once again with this 15 year old piece of trash? I'm not gonna throw them any money when I know that this is a cash grab! The only reason why they are re-releasing it, is because they can get away with it and make money. It is a progression server with progressive itemization. As a hardcore, I am not stupid that I will invest my time in it when I already know how things will turn out. Activision Blizzard is such a greedy company that no longer produce quality products nor listen to the demands of a segment market, and this is why they will receive no support from me.

    That is my stance, and look what you are doing? You are sucking their **** to even consider everything they do an acceptable standard!

    And stop f***ing defending A:IR man! You didn't play it while we did! You can hope but it doesn't reflect the probability nor the facts! You are only drinking your own cool-aid with your so-called hope!
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  15. Ali_Dire

    Ali_Dire Ascendant

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    ah ... i had so much hope for this game ,
    holy **** i will just read your last line, u wrote a Fing book up there xD why the hell would i defend something when i havent even played it what are u even talking about u angry little thing xD..........hope ? for a video game ? xD holy nerd xD
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  16. Sef

    Sef Ascendant

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    Yes, but in the end of the day this game is going to be F2P, if you just enable things what you can only pay with RL money and remove the link that F2P player can obtain same items, then it will be hard P2W.
    So in F2P game you need to have that option so people could buy your things with IG currency (symbiosis between player who has money vs player who has too much time) - yes some call it still P2W, but it will be more so Pay to Advance so it is less terrible, than the other option.

    Most companies will never do MMORPG and sell skins like Warframe or Path of Exile does. Eastern gaming companies will always go West to get some easy money.

    Because we are dealing with Kakao and Bluehole I can tell you, what ever we saw in Thai version of the game will come here too. I do understand your frustration and I'm same as you, but this is something we need to deal with it. This will be F2P game and in F2P games things like this happen.
     
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  17. Ali_Dire

    Ali_Dire Ascendant

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    i absolutly agree with anything you said
     
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  18. Eternal

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    @Sef What you said is fair enough and I do agree with all of your points.

    Pay to Win is buying the victory of the competition directly. Pay to Advance is buying advantage that can affect the outcome of the competition. If you think about it, there is only a little difference. I consider both as Pay to Win because you don't win in a game without maximizing your advantages. Successful people in real-life minimize their disadvantages by decluttering their life, and maximize their advantages by being as productive as possible with resources available to them (this includes their time), and they have the concept of growth that poor people do not have. We all have the same amount of time, there are many poor people who are technically smart, but do you want to know the difference of what makes one successful over the other? It's the advantages and disadvantages that they have! The exact same thing works for a game.

    And yes, I am frustrated to the point that I quit this game and there is no way I am going to play it. It's not only the monetization that I dislike, but also the game-design as well. There is no way I can stomach a game like this as a hardcore myself who is looking for a proper game. It's not even gonna last for a year, it's only gonna last for a few months considering the state of this game. We were given MMOs that are sales-oriented for over a decade, and now, we are demanding quality. If you read about marketing, this tactic is not sustainable. We are fed up with it! Starbase and Dual Universe are upcoming MMOs that use product-oriented marketing. What does that mean? It's factoring what they think is best for the quality of their games into their game-design and monetization in order to market their games. In other words, convincing the customers to buy their products through their quality, not sales tactics. Apparently, not many people know anything about marketing so they don't understand what the f*** is going on and what happened in the past years regarding the genre.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
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  19. Kailis

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    @Eternal If you quit and won’t be playing it again then what are you doing here? You’re literally calling bs on people who try to enjoy what you could not enjoy BEFORE trying it.

    Get out and stop annoying people who are not as “hardcore?” as you.

    Edit: typo
     
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  20. Eternal

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    @Kailis Back in 2017 and 2018, we literally had nothing in the market and we only had very limited MMO projects that were announced (and this includes A:IR as one of them). You want to know why I joined this forum in the first place? It's because last 2017, when A:IR was announced, I hoped that it will turn out as a good game. The game during that time was still a work in progress and is said to be only 40% complete. Kakao even said that we will get a Western Beta at Q1 of 2018 which didn't happen. I was positive about this game and hoped for a good outcome despite the game being in UE3—the game after all was still being developed.

    Now, the game is fully developed because it's in Beta already and I understand what a Beta stage is. I tested the Thai version to end-game and I looked at the Korean version and they are literally the same. What makes you think our version will be any different? The game-design is bad, and at this stage, the game is already fully developed, so you have to take what you see as what it is.

    When A:IR was still a work in progress, I was optimistic about it. Now that we already got the result, do you still expect me to be hopeful when the outcome has already been defined?
    Let's say I am Drake and I slept with a Pornstar. She then told me that she thinks she's pregnant and so we went to confirm the pregnancy. I am hopeful that the pregnancy test will give us a negative result. The test gave us the result of positive,... but wait, I can still hope that the girl is not pregnant. Maybe the test kit is the problem, maybe it's not accurate. This is how you people think, and this is how you f*** yourself every step of the way!

    Supposed that we ignore the monetization, what do you think about the game-design? Do you really think it's any good? If you don't wanna listen to me, look at the reviews of people who actually played it past level 30 and they will tell you the same thing. Do you really think this game will lasts long? Learn about this game and tell me!

    Now that I quit this game, I am free to tell people facts and my opinions about the game so I can contribute to the awareness of the MMO gaming community who are sick of the state of this genre. I don't think anyone here understand marketing but there's a lot of sales orientation that went to the game-design of A:IR. When developing these games, they don't think about making a good game, they think about sales and this is what influences their game-design.

    "Even if your game is fun, it doesn't mean that it will be financially successful." — YT Bae, CIO at Krafton Game Union

    When you are selling something to the market, you got to deliver value. What kind of value do they deliver if all they do is design and sell their products through sales tactics and strategy rather than creating demand through better product and service.

    These people will never focus on the product, it's been over a decade that these people gave us nothing but sales orientation, and it's still sales here in A:IR that they focus on. We the community of the MMO genre are fed up and we demand better product and service. A:IR is the best of worst games of the genre and nothing more. Sales-oriented games like this is not gonna last long in the market that is now demanding better quality after more than a decade of experiencing nothing but sales orientation.

    It's been over a decade, when are you gonna f***ing learn? Based on your attitude, even if you are a vampire from Twilight, you'll never learn.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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