More informations to come very soon

Discussion in 'Gameplay Discussions' started by Laguna, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    The information from the gameplay of the Korean CBT is already long been available. I know a Korean player who have mined that information and compiled it together. My Korean is good so I can interpret these information without difficulty. Presented with these information, you wanna know what it instantly reminded me of? It's almost the same as Revelation Online, a game that I played for almost a year before quitting.
    Don't say that you don't have any information because the information is present! When there is information, then it can be interpreted.

    A:IR is not Open-World-based, it is Instance-based. The activities that you do in the game comprises your participation in the game. Tell me, are these activities Open World or Instance-based? They are mostly (and almost all) Instance-based. So the persistence of the game exists in the Open World where it is not private, but the activities are almost all private Instance-based. When I say Instance-based (which is a broad term itself), I highly emphasize the zones that are private. There is something you called private Instances, and there is something you called public Instancing which is 'shared' like in Ragnarok Online. When I say Instance-based, I mean private Instance-based activities since what else do you do in the game but those activities? Does it matter if the persistence is in the Open World if the activities that you will do are private Instances? The experience that you will get out of this is garbage!

    Is Revelation Online Open-World-based? Mostly (and almost all), it is not! Everything is Instance-based except the Life Skills and the weekly Clan Wars (Territory Wars). We are describing the activities here because that is what you do in the game. And speaking of activities, the existence of limitations and Event-based activities make the game "Session-based". No limitations (also no resets), no Event-based, makes a game "Seamless-based". Tell me which would you rather prefer because almost all MMOs right now are Session-based. It forces you into a routine, it is repetitive, it is limited, and it forces you to participate because the game creates a lot of gap due to the limitations. It is a stupid system in my opinion!

    Basically, Themepark MMOs derived from WoW which is a Themepark MMO itself and the first ever Themepark MMO itself. Everything that is Themepark (such as this game) is literally a WoW clone! MMOs have always been a Sandbox until WoW had a different formula that almost all MMOs today imitate. WoW is not 100% Open-World-based like Ever Quest, there are lots of private Instances in WoW. WoW is not a good example of an Open-World-based MMO, a good example would be Black Desert. The moment you introduce private Instances that are necessary Contents, it is no longer an entirely Open-World-based game because the activities have shifted somewhere else.

    Like I already said, the information are already there, so why can't we talk about it instead of pretending we know nothing?

    @Alyria Thank you for the video link, it will inform people here about these terminologies. This game is 100% a Themepark, the experience here is all "guided" and linear. Since this is 100% a Themepark, this is a WoW clone! I have gameplay information until end-game from the Korean CBT that supports my claims that are sourced from Korean players themselves. The reality is, this is 100% a Themepark based on all my information, our idealism is, maybe they 'did' something different from what are actual in a timeline where it's already been decided. Time itself is irreversible, the past is not re-writable! (even Science have ruled out that notion.)

    We got to accept the reality man! This is looking like an experience that I don't want from an MMORPG!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  2. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    I don't think people understand what "Seamless" means. "Seamless" is the opposite of "Session". When a game is Session-based, it has limitations, it doesn't allow for unlimited grind (unlike Runescape), it has a Reset period, and there are Event-based activities. Including a Log-in Attendance into the game also breaks the game's Seamlessness.
    Seamless means you can play the game whenever you like and grind whenever you like. You don't need to worry about Dailies/Weeklies (and in Revelation Online, there are even Monthlies) because they are non-existent. Session means they have broken these activities into sessions, they are not consistent, they are time-gated.
    I am just clarifying, and I would like to clarify as well that this game is heavily Session-based, it is not Seamless.

    This is another garbage WoW clone!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  3. CreativeX

    CreativeX Ascendant

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    Okay now I believe i understand most of What you are trying to say, but Why do you hate it so much?

    In my opinion dungeons beeing instance based is totally fine like in world of warcraft.
    You enter with a party to fight the PVE encounters inside the dungeon (or instance) and you dont get interrupted by the enemy faction(s).

    Also the thing about dailies and resets.
    So basically in your world you want to log on every day or so, and kill the hardest raid/boss/whatever allowing some players to have best gear in the game after a week?
    No weekly reset? So you can just do the same raid over and over again miltiple times per day.
    So you preffer it this way instead of the best gear in the game beeing somewhat locked behind a weekly reset?
    Pretty much every game does it and i dont see why this is a bad idéa.

    What i dont like however is when games puts you in instanced scenarious all the time for example: to finish this quest you need to go into this portal/cave (which puts you alone in an instanced place) then when you are done you walk out (into the area with orher players) and you take next quest and repeat by going into this cave/portal again that cute you off from other players.

    I want questing to be open-world i guess.
    Same with most stuff like gathering, open world pvping, killing rares and so forth.
    With the exception beeing dungeons.

    You make it sound super bad, and i understand if you like games that are not this way But frankly like you also say so Many mmos are like this.

    And i like world of warcraft alot, if the game is as ”open world” as WOW is with the exception beeing dungeons, raids and instanced pvp battleground then I dont really see the problem.


    EDIT: ofcourse some stuff should not be locked behind a reset timer or limit ur progress: You should always be able to mine/herb/craft and such without beeing limited to an amount.
    Same goes with some other stuff like, dungeons you can do over and over again.

    But when it comes to some high end content, there is a reason you can only do it once per day/week.
     
  4. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    Like you already said, almost every MMOs out there are what I described; Themepark, Instanced-based, Session-based. I don't think they have bolstered any success and none of them lasted for long. Such game design is a product of these companies' business decisions and outlines, not innovations. The experiences that they can deliver is inferior to their predecessors, everything nowadays have became inline to deliver just Instant-experience. Basically, this is what the Action-genre is supposed to solely deliver. Even Modern Offline RPGs have became too Action-oriented in place of their RPG elements, they deliver nothing but Instant-experience. Look at that game we call Final Fantasy XIII, in my opinion, for an RPG, it is trash! It is linear, it is Story-driven, it has no depth, it is basically an Action game than ever an RPG.

    I don't like the Systems that we currently have because;
    1.) It is a clone of World of Warcraft (a trash MMO in my opinion).
    2.) It is not what the genre is and what the genre is supposed to deliver overall.
    3.) It delivers nothing but Instant-experience, nothing else.
    4.) Less quality and quantity than the predecessors.
    5.) They don't last for long because they don't have any persistence.
    6.) The game is systematically broken as it doesn't reward players for their commitments in an equitable manner. A skill-based system fits a non-persistent game that is Session-based (which is not an MMO), while a time-based and intellectual-based system (and to a lesser degree, skill-based system) fits a persistent MMO game that is supposed to have RPG elements.
    7.) The system of the game is designed for the Casuals. How can a game that is supposed to be persistent not be time-based? And now you want to time-gate the game just so it can appease to the Casuals?
    8.) The game overall is too simplified and too dumbed-down. You don't even need any intellect to play such a game. Did you know that RPGs are also intellect-based?
    9.) You call this "Massively Multiplayer Online" and did what you could for the Server to provide for it technically, but don't want to foster Social Interaction and Community Development in-game? What is the point?

    MMORPGs right now are all dumbed-down piece of trash. It is true that World of Warcraft broke the MMORPG genre when everyone started to copy them. World of Warcraft right now is not the same game before, it is an over-simplified piece of trash! When such design became the norm, MMORPGs started to die as they are barely persistent. To keep the persistence of the game and continue to survive as an MMO, it has to maintain the foundations of it's persistence; that would be the Contents, the Community aspects, and the Commitment aspects. Do you think that just Instant-experience alone can keep the game persistent? This is an MMO!

    This is a similar game like any other, it is not any different! I can tell you that this is not gonna lasts! Most MMOs today fail because their design is not even perpetual in the first place. That is what an MMO is, it's supposed to last for long-term!

    Look at Black Desert, the reason why it's still alive today and is able to maintain a good population is because of the design of that game (and that game is Pay to Win). If you built it around the maintenance of it's persistence, it will continue to remain persistent and survive. It's not perfect, but it's better than what we currently have right now in terms of game design.

    About this game, tell me any signs that it will survive!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  5. Laguna

    Laguna Ascendant

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    Well... a recent message from CM Prabello stated that A:IR is under some sort of heavy revamp so we can expect some big changes even if we don't really know which part of the game is involved. This is atleast encouraging since the overall lack of informations this year might still be the sign of some hard work done by BlueHole to improve their product.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    Alright, this displays that they are doing revamps on the structure of the game. Tell me, is that enough indications to demonstrate improvements on the quality of the game? Such a word as "revamp" is a vector, not a magnitude to improvements! A revamp can possibly take place in either two directions, towards the positive or negative side. It doesn't guarantee a positive improvement to the game as the word is a vector! If I'm not mistaken, Bless Online's Combat was completely 'revamped' for the NA/EU Steam Version and nothing about it can be related to improvements and so are any 'reworks' that were done to the game. I am not talking about slight improvements (considerable or not), I am talking about the deterioration in quality. Just because you 'changed' something, it doesn't necessarily mean that you changed it for the better!

    That is not what I want to hear! What I want to hear are their 'plans' regarding the restructuring of the game, not 'that they plan to restructure the game'! Tell me, does it tell me anything?

    I am just going to see in the end how this turns out! Not a single existing official information can confirm a positive direction to the game. It is something that they have to chart, not a single ship departs without planning their destination and route, you are the Captain, but as Passengers, we also want to know where this is heading.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  7. CreativeX

    CreativeX Ascendant

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    Will you please stop with all the ”!” It just makes reading your posts irritating.

    And i understand that maybe you are not happy with How the game is, or in what direction it’s going But We get it now.
    No need to make it every second post here on the forums.

    Instead maybe come with idéas and critisism.
    All you do is point out how other MMOs and MMO history in the past have failed, and that you think AIR Will be next.

    If you think it will fail so hard without trying to help out the game, then why are you still here and why do you care?

    Anyways lets not get offtopic, instead focus on the thread, come with feedback and/or critiscism and not all these doomsday scenarios.

    PS: I am a BIG MMO fan aswell, its almost the only genre in gaming I have been playing for the last 4 years. I know its a touchy subject but I aswell want AIR to be a good MMO.
    And not another Bless 2.0

    Lets just hope that the developers understand what the western players wants these days, no pay to win and not all that RNG stuff.
    We want progression and to have fun in the game.
    And i hope they gather as much feedback as possible from other directions, for example why bless online died so hard, why everyone loved Teras combat and why World of Warcraft pvp/arena is easily one of the hardest, functional, smoothest and most indepth and skill based system out there when it comes to PVP.
    (Reffering to how wow used to be in Wrath of the Lich king until Warlords of Dreanor)
     
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  8. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    I'll tell you what this is:

    1.) This game is obviously facing delays and according to them, it is undergoing an overhaul.

    2.) Do not expect this game to come out (whether that be Soft-Launch or Official-Launch) this Q1, Q2, nor even Q3 of 2019. Even likely, it will not even come out at the end of 2019 because CBT has to take place and there has to be a realistic gap between the Release and the Test. Learn how to set and expect realistic estimates of dates!
    What sets human and animal mental faculties apart are the later have the cognitive to plan. In order to plan ("prediction" which is our case here), information have to be acquired (this is called "learning"), which then forms your collective memory, and causal reasoning have to be used. This is what we called different degrees of intelligence as there is no such thing as levels of intelligence! It is inherently human cognition to make 'reasonable' predictions! (there is no such thing as predictions that are not reasonable as it requires you to reason in this process. Such a thing is called "self-deception", deception - a cognitive in which animals also possess!)
    Let us not step back to that savageness we have all descended from primitively!

    3.) Since this game is going to Release on that date close to 2020 or even 2020, it has to compete - and I will stress it again - it has to compete with other upcoming MMORPGs that are all slated for that date or within that date!

    4.) In order to compete, otherwise this game does not sell - as there is no such thing as an MMO that do not require a commitment - it has to be attractive to the MMO Community. To be attractive, it needs to have an attractive Business Model that is equitable to the system of the game, and an attractive game design. How are you going to compete with what you currently have? It is literally looking the same as limitless WoW clones that came before it that we have all gotten tired of!

    5.) And even if you can attract players to try your game, you have to keep them! How do you expect to be able to keep them if your game do not have any persistence such as Rewarding experience and meaningful contents? ("meaningful" means something that has a process.)
    A rewarding experience is something that is earned through efforts, an achievement is the 'process' of having achieved, without the process it will not be called an "achievement" in the first place.
    What you are doing is instant-gratification! Something like that do not have a process! A game doesn't start in the end-game, it starts by playing the game that has meaningful contents! The game itself is the process, it's about the adventure towards the end-game, not about promoting everyone to end-game so you can hand them out all of it's contents which is not fun anymore as they are nothing but instant now!
    And seriously, you expect people to commit to your game if you are to design it like this? Something that do not have any persistence that you want to keep as persistent?

    -------------------------------------
    Let me remind you again - you are competing for the market here!
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
  9. Laguna

    Laguna Ascendant

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    Any informations given at the moment aren't the guarantee of anything so the actual and vague invoked revamp can be a double-edged sword and I guess we already know that by experience. Anyways I had to mention it because we don't have much informations currently and for some people it can be enough to explain the lack of communication this year.


    We all want to know more obviously, but BlueHole doesn't have to act with transparency since we're not the investors as opposed to the Kickstarter middle where developpers feel the need to communicate more on their various progress. Of course it's not the only reason, they could communicate whatever the context but I assume their strategy is more about polishing their product to some point then delivering informations and actievely promote A:IR.

    Currently the actual passengers represent a very small portion of what the playerbase will be, I think we have had the opportunity to discover this game too early and BlueHole probably didn't expect A:IR to have so much work left after the korean feedbacks from their first CBT, even more with the recent and huge fail of BLESS Online having many similarities with A:IR (from the game engine to the playstyle). Basically we just wait because the development takes longer than expected, we don't know if it's for the best, we hope because the MMO middle is quite disappointing and if it's bad or if we can't wait anymore we simply turn the page as always. I personnaly don't feel the need to overreact, it's simply useless on a little forum with such poor visibility and I doubt anyone near BlueHole would notice us and voice up our concerns as long as no playable content nor wallets are involved.
     
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