Is a separate animal race really needed?

Discussion in 'Gameplay Discussions' started by hurfmurf, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. hurfmurf

    hurfmurf Ascendant

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    Apparently there is now a new *small* one-gender animal race planned for A:IR.

    I find this quite disappointing because this is terribly limiting and IMO it would be better to have animal features incorporated into the general character creation, so that players would be able to create characters with animal features together with a free choice of body and facial geometry.

    To me it sounds like Bluehole are after the paedophiles' money again and will recreate Tera's Elins to make some mad cash. From a business standpoint this is understandable, but I still don't see a reason to make "animal girl" customization exclusive to a single race as with the character creator it is surely possible to make short characters in all varieties for those who feel the urge to do so, while also giving people who prefer "grown up" characters the same choices in regards to character visuals.

    One of main things that usually attracts Western players to asian games are the much more detailed character creators and I find it very perplexing that Bluehole does not try to capitalize on that by allowing people to recreate their favourite races and characters when coming from other games and MMOs: Viera and Miquo'te from FF, Castanics and maybe Aman from Tera, Asmodeans from Aion, Draenei from WoW etc or just demi-human characters in general as AFAIK there aren't that many MMO games that would allow in-depth body customization for these.

    Thus I wonder what other people think about this: non-issue, something that needs changing or are you in favour of such separation/exclusivity?

    Meanwhile, some(lots of) pictures to warm you up to the idea of "grown up" female characters with some fantastical facial features(some maybe slightly nsfw):

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    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  2. hurfmurf

    hurfmurf Ascendant

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    Some more:

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    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  3. CreativeX

    CreativeX Ascendant

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    I get what ur saying but I dont really have a valid opinion about this because I never play any animal races in any games, I always go for the standard human race.

    However what I would say the reasoning behind the race is just that, it is a race.
    Just like drenai you cant change the ”looks” of it, it is still a Drenai.

    But costumizing hair, length, makeup, tattoos and such is possible, and I wouldnt see Why that wouldnt be the same with AIR.

    Maybe I dont understand what ur asking so please enligheten me.
    I guess ur not happy about it beeing a child race, which I havent seen yet but I do agree these child races are obnoxious and kinda disgusting.

    Even in-game the story is you start as a child and then grow up to an adult, I dont understand why that wouldnt apply to this race.
     
  4. Arika

    Arika Ascendant

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    I'm glad to have an animal race ^ - ^
    who doesn't like animal race can play Human men or woman:)
    and there may be more races.. but now only know Humand, and one animal race:)
     
  5. hurfmurf

    hurfmurf Ascendant

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    We don't have any sufficient info right now about that new race, so I can't even say whether I'd like it or not. What I do not like at this moment is that it appears that animal features - like those you can see in pictures above - are probably going to be exclusively locked to this new *small*, separate animal race.

    But I woud like to get the opportunity to create tall, "grown up", women characters with generously sized assets in all the right places, which should be made possible by simply adding some more options to the already existing and working character editor for human characters.
    I am not speaking against the new race right now, I am speaking in favour of adding more choices to the character creation of reguar human characters.

    Here is how I see how my suggestion could fit in:

    - Lore

    As described previously: when the big catastrophy has hit the planet, many people and wildlife died, with their souls going into some sort of a spirit realm, where their spirit energies interacted with each other, resulting in some souls changing in the process. Therefore, upon resurrection, the new human characters may suddenly show some small animal features like ears, horns and tails, but would remain human for the most part.

    Interesting possibiity for the story: some creatures' souls might undergo a similar transformation and if some madman decided to create an army of ressurected beasts by reviving them analog to the way it is done for the dead humans, he suddeny might create powerful creatures with human-like independent mind, capable of complex thoughts.
    Just an idea, that has some potential, IMO.

    - Visuals and implementation

    I may be totally ignorant about how the game engine and character actually work, but in general it appears to me that horns and ears can be easily added with special hairstyles as a simpe addition to what is already there, if we go a very simple route. Separate choices of hairstyles and animal features would be better ofc and were an often requested option in Tera, for example.

    Set a flag upon choice of an animal feature that marks the character as being a demi-human and belonging into one of two general categories - animal or dragon/drake/wyvern, or in more simpe terms: "ears or horns".
    Characters with ears can choose a texture which may display some fur or some animal markings on their body. Characters with horns get some scale texture options.
    Both of these texture choices could easily tie into some sort of a tattoo selection for regular humans, being just an additional option unlocking when choosing a demi-human trait.

    The only extra detail that might be a slight issue are the hands which could maybe feature some sort of a resemblance to a claw, just like on the Asmodeans from Aion, for an '(optional?) additional visual detail and would the probably require some changes to character's hand geometry. Can be ignored if that is too much work IMO.

    Tails: optional and if promiment, very visible tails are an issue because of clipping and animation requirements, then some small reindeer-like tail can be made, which is visible only when undressed or when wearing clothing showing that specific area of the body, to keep additional modeling requirements low.

    And that is basically how I think this can be possible, leaving the only remaining question -

    Why?

    For me personally, it is because I do like to have some "fantastical" options in general - in character creation, in clothing and armour design, in animal combat mount choices, not to speak of the general setting with its floating isles and flying ships. And I really do not want to play anything anywhere close to Elins or being locked into a small character size(and I'm saying this as someone who played a female dwarf in Warhammer Online and had possibly the best time in any MMO ever).
    For the game itself it would be an additional detail to draw interest from the playerbase as AFAIK there aren't many MMOs where you get to play grown up human-like animal people with a detailed face and body customization.
     
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  6. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    Hi! I would like to show you something.

    On Korean CBT1 which took place on December 2017 (and according to the Devs, the game at that time was 60% complete), there was no selection of Race in the Character Creation, but on the Default Character Slider for each Classes, only Humans existed - but I didn't noticed only until now that there was 2 different kinds of Ears in there (probably intended for 2 different Races in the future, one is an Elf). I looked at the Ear (귀) settings - there was no option there to switch it from Human to Elven Ears vice versa which means it's a variation, not an extension of the Ear (귀) settings. This was the early Demo Character Creation (ofcourse, it was a Work in Progress).
    [​IMG]

    Also, I read the Thai information and put it in a Translate-application because I don't know Thai.
    I found out that before the formation of multiple and separate Factions, they came from unity under a single Kingdom called the Kingdom of Solam before it's division. In this Kingdom, 4 races coexisted together: the Hoonans (literally an Owl Race in Thai), the Orcs, the Elves, and what the Thais literally call the Semi-Humans (they do look like a full-Human though).

    Story:
    "อาณาจักรโซลัมสถานที่ซึ่งมี ฮูนัน, ออร์ค, เอลฟ์ และ กึ่งมนุษย์มารวมตัวกัน"


    Look at these Ears

    From Korean CBT1 (this is the Player's Character in which he moved the Camera View to look at his own Character directly).
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    From Thai source (has Elven Ears but wearing a Plague Doctor Bird Beak Mask, probably a Cosmetic Equipment for Face)
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    Last but not the least, even though the new Combat video in high quality from Thai source do not show Elven Ears (it's either their faces are covered with Headgear, or if not, they have Human Ears), you will notice the Elven Ears from their website animations of Classes (Elementalist and Assassin).
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    So there is now a solid proof that Humans and Elves exist due to existing variation of Ears from both Korean CBT1 and Thai version. The Orcs and the Hoonans (the Owls), I have yet to see them in screenshots or videos, nor from any NPCs, only texts from the Story in Thai tell of their existence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
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  7. hurfmurf

    hurfmurf Ascendant

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    Good catch. I knew before that at least Mystic characters in the early demo/beta had elven ears, but wasn't sure whether these could be applied to all other characters too. This basically confirms it.


    Aaaand some pictures relevant to the original topic:
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  8. Astaroth

    Astaroth Ascendant

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    Hmmmm.... bring on Elin 2.0!
     
  9. hurfmurf

    hurfmurf Ascendant

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. Astaroth

    Astaroth Ascendant

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    Well what I meant was, that render of an Elin that surfaced back a few years ago by the same artists. But the Elin looked older and not as creepy. Hence the 2.0 bit :)
     
  11. Kjjing

    Kjjing Ascendant

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  12. Arika

    Arika Ascendant

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  13. hurfmurf

    hurfmurf Ascendant

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    Yes, I remember that Elin, too. It had indeed less creepiness to it at the first sight, but I still think all of her animal features could be easily realized within existing character creator for more customization options for all players.

    Thank you for posting this. This is quite a surprise, both positive and negative.

    Positive because there isn't an immersion breaking, paedo baiting, anime faced race ( - at) this time (...).

    Negative because that new animal race seems like a cheap hack job. You can clearly see that these are just animal heads from some animal models copy-and-pasted on regular small human bodies. Even their hands are 100% human.
    I also wonder about whether and how the story will have to be modified to justify the existance of these separate(!) races. Two playable ones would fit in with the existing story of 2 different peoples being given a chance at rebirth by an NPC faction, but with 4 in total some changes to the story seem necessary.

    Looking at the rest of the footage I am under the impression that the Thai client is some seriously outdated version of A:IR at the stage of the old Korean CBTs that some hobby mod makers decided to tweak a little bit and make some cash in a - in terms of MMO coverage - "remote area" of the world. I really hope this isn't indicative of the quality of the final product intended for the rest of the world.
     
  14. Vujkan

    Vujkan Ascendant

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    this game is basicly Tera 2 what do you expect without animal races?!races is not problem,most important is Combat system,animation,completly gameplay,dungeon and raid mehanics and of course crafting and life skill system!!
     
  15. Santreim

    Santreim Ascendant

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    That races trailer was really disappointing, just generic "humans with weird ears" and creepy looking furries.
    If you are going to do races, do it properly. I kinda prefer it was only humans now...
     
  16. Vujkan

    Vujkan Ascendant

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    Sentreim lets see final version :)
     
  17. Santreim

    Santreim Ascendant

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    Yeah, of course I'll wait and see it by myself. I'll do what I can to play the SEA Beta they are announcing, and hope for Kakao to at least do their job as publisher and give us some info about the state of the game.

    It's just that I got my hopes up yesterday with all the SEA CBT announcement and such, and this video was such a letdown. Let's at least see the bright side, there's no pedo race (yet).
     
  18. Astaroth

    Astaroth Ascendant

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    Hmm, those little animal things are quite creepy looking! Orcs were an interesting choice, I like that they actually look like orcs and not some green skinned human with tusks lol. Elves are good, I love elves. But back to the little animal race, I really hope that’s a place holder and that if they intend to keep the general idea, that they at least put more work into them. As they are, they are an eyesore.
     
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  19. hurfmurf

    hurfmurf Ascendant

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    I disagree about this game being anywhere close to Tera 2, as Tera 2 woud have action combat, specific art style, certain races etc. As for my expectations - you maybe have missed to read my initial posts in this thread. I'm not specifically against an animal race, I just think it would pay off more if animal features would be included in the general character editor, so that players can create chracters to their liking with as much creative freedom as is good for the game(ie no totally disfigured freaks or Satan reborn etc). As for other topics mentioned - just look at my post history, I have a number of posts on all sorts of other issues as well.

    I am actually at this point in time, given what we have seen so far, rather fine with the principle of "humans with weird ears", because this is what 90% of the playerbase will want to play anyway - basically good looking characters with some additional light fantastical facial and body features.

    And I also DO see a strict distinction into separate races as a problem as I have encountered continuous dissatistaction with the race choice in Tera: when I played female elves I really liked their general body geometry and out-of-battle run animation, but would always prefer either castanic animations for melee and human animations for many sorceress abilities. Same for other races. I always thought that some more mix and matching in animations, hairstyles(ie Aman braids for elves) and in available armour/clothing would make the characters much more visually appealing for me. Not to mention grown up Elins.
    Thus, in Tera the racial separation actually made more harm than good from my point of view.

    The new animal race in A:IR looks *to me* at this point as simply quite cheaply done IMO, just in terms of artistic craftsmanship. Its only current redeeming quality is that it isn't a paedo bait.

    Just adding another picture that should demonstrate the principle of integration of fantastical body/face features into the regular character creator:

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    Horns, animal/elven ears, claws, scales/fur, magical body marks/tattoos - everything should be fairly easy to implement into the existing framework and still would provide rich body and face customization for more creative freedom and better costume compability.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  20. Arika

    Arika Ascendant

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    owo
    orcs haven't seen since maybe only wow :)
    few games have orcs race so its rare.
    but Ein looks like my super-sweet little syrup.
     

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