Discuss the Economy of A:IR

Discussion in 'Gameplay Discussions' started by Eternal, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    This game have potential, but bad game-design is just ruining this game!

    ---------------------------------------------
    Let me first start that all the Rewards that your Character can acquire in-game are specific to that Class. All Equipments that your Character can acquire through Dungeons are specific to that Character's Class, all Equipments sold by any NPC or Token Exchange NPC are specific to that Character's Class, and all Equipments that can be Crafted from Workbench are specific to that Character's Class (you cannot Craft Equipments in this game that is not for your Class because you don't have the option).

    The Drop System in this game for all Bosses is Pure Random Loot System. If you don't know what it means, a "Pure Random Loot System" assigns Loots to each Player in the Group regardless of any other factors. With this Loot System, it's not possible to acquire anything that is not for your Class.
    ---------------------------------------------

    The game has no direct Player-to-Player Trading but has a central Trading Agency (an Auction House).

    When you right-click other Characters in-game, you only have these options which shows an indication that there is no direct Player-to-Player Trading at all.


    Name
    lv.45 Class

    สนทนา 1:1 = 1: 1 conversation
    เชิญเข้าปาร์ตี้ = invite to party
    สมัครขอเป็นเพื่อน = apply for a friend
    ซื่นชม = view
    พิจารณาดู = consider
    ---------------------------------------------

    The Auction House System does not currently work in this CBT (it doesn't load). I have no choice but to use the details from pre-CBT to analyze the Auction House.
    [​IMG]
    ค้นหาสินค้า | My Item | ประวัติการขาย | ประวัติการซื้อ | ประวัติ เงินฝาก | Favorite | Refresh
    เงินฝากตีมิ / ถอนเงิน
    ดนหา :
    ข้อมูลไมทษ - ฐานวนไอเทม - ราคาขายเร็วๆ นี้ - ราคาตลาด - งานวนซื้อขายใน 1 เดือน - ราคาเฉลื่อเดิอนที่แล้ว
    ลงทะเบียนสินค้า / ฝากเงิน

    Notices:
    • เงินที่ฝากไว้ใบระบบมิใว้ใช้ซื้อสินค้าใบระบบได้ = The money deposited in the system is not used to purchase the product.
    • ไอเทมทีซื้อแล้วจะส่งเข้าสู่ Mailbox ของตัวละคร = Purchased items will be sent to the character's mailbox.
    • ไอเทมทีใม่ได้ลงทะเบียนหรือหมดระยะเวลาแล้วจะอูกส่งเข้าสู่ Mailbox ตัวละคร = Items that are not registered or have expired, will be sent to the Mailbox.
    I have never tried this Auction House (because it doesn't currently work in this CBT) nor have I seen a Player tried it, so I'm limited to this information.

    EDIT: The Auction House is working right now.

    EDIT: It turns out that you can set your Prices freely in this Auction House with no range. The Prices are not regulated / controlled which is a good thing. For more information about the Auction House, read below.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
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  2. Sparki

    Sparki Ascendant

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    actually A:IR looks for me as Black Desert 2.0 Money melk

    The Game looks fking wonderful and the world is living
    hopefully they dont give us a BDO 2.0
     
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  3. FliP

    FliP Ascendant

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    I couldn't stop myself but giggle at the first sentence. Do you realize that class specific armors were a thing since... ever?

    In general, there have been 2 approaches to armors in games: the cheap "One armor fits all" approach or have specific sets for specific classes (in some games even split by genders).
     
  4. Alyria

    Alyria Ascendant

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    Hmmmmm . . . I can see what Eternal is getting at here. If a character can only acquire armor that is specific to their class (from crafting, looting, raiding, etc) it is concerning. Having the ability to market and trade items on a global market board or even player to player help boost the economy and provide incentive for players to repeat content.

    I would suggest the developers rethink this approach. But that Is personal preference. Especially because there are players who enjoy crafting as a pastime and would enjoy creating items for classes other than their own. Just look at all the people who Omnicraft in FFXIV.
     
  5. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    Alright, so I heard the Auction House is working right now (for the first time ever), so I went ahead and check it out myself.
    We will look at the information so I can fairly review this game.

    [​IMG]

    You can Register an Item by clicking that Item from your Inventory. You can set the Quantity to how many of that Item you want to sell. It turns out that you can actually freely set your own Unit Price and there is no range (meaning the Prices are not regulated / controlled). -- I am happy that this is the case!

    We have a "Total Selling Price". Total Selling Price = Unit Price x Quantity

    We have a "Deposit fee" which is 20% of the Total Selling Price that you have to pay upfront.

    "เมื่อขายไอเทม จะได้รับเงินมัดจําคืน N Gold
    แตหากยกเลิกการลงทะเบียนหรือหมตระยะเวลาขาย
    จะไมสามารถรับคินได จะลงทะเบียนไอเทมหรือไม?"


    Translation:
    "When selling items Will receive a deposit of N Gold
    But if canceling the registration or selling period
    Will not be able to accept Will register an item?"


    What does this mean?
    You have to pay a Deposit fee of 20% upfront. When the Item is sold or the selling-period expired, you can claim this Deposit back. You can always cancel an already registered Item, but doing so, you won't be able to claim your Deposit back. Deposit fee = Total Selling Price x 0.2

    We have a "Fee" which is the Auction House Fee that you don't pay upfront (it will be deducted from the Income of that Sale). It is 35% of the Total Selling Price. When you are able to make a Sale and receive Income from it, 35% will be deducted from it. Fee = Total Selling Price x 0.35
    Income = Total Selling Price - Fee

    Note: You can pay for the 30 day Star Blessing Package Account Premium that has a benefit of -30% Market Fee. Market Fee is 35%. With the Premium, you can bring it down to 5%.

    This is how the Auction House works now that we can finally see it! You can actually set your own Price and there is no range which is good. Just be ready to be Taxed 35% of your Sales Income! There is no direct Player-to-Player Trading, so if you want to sell, there is no workaround for the Tax.

    In my honest opinion, this isn't a bad Economic System, but it isn't good either.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
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  6. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    "If" is a conditional word. It is certain information and I am certain that you can only craft Weapons and Armors that are specific to your Class. Same for the Loots and Raiding, same for the NPCs (Gear Merchant, Token Exchange NPCs, etc.).

    Also, those Weapons and Armors from Crafting are Character-Bound when Equipped.
    เมื่อสวมใส่จะผูกมัดตัวละคร = When worn, will bind the character.
    after worn:
    ไอเทมผูกมัดตัวละครชือ 'name' = The item binds the character 'name'.

    As soon as you wear them, they are Character-Bound. There is no mechanics in this game to unbound Character-Bounded Equipments. This is not unique to the Crafted Equipments -- All Equipments in this game are Character-Bound when Equipped, which in my opinion should be changed, if not, add a mechanics to be able to unbound! -- it's f***ing bull-sh*t!
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  7. Alyria

    Alyria Ascendant

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    Bind on equip is not a new mechanic. This has been around for years. Numerous previously release games have this and they also have armor that is bind on pickup (dungeon and raid drops mostly). With no mechanic to unbind. This mechanic has proven to help player economy because it removes inventory from the market.
     
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  8. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    I cannot accept these limitations, which is why I quitted this game. I will not play an MMO where Equipments are Character-Bound when Equipped and the Trading is limited to the Auction House. These are not good, and if anyone thinks this is good, go and support them! I'm moving on, and I'm glad I got to try out this game and was able to come to a conclusion.

    The Economy is just one of the reason why I quitted (I have a number of other reasons as well, but I'm not gonna go on those into details).
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  9. Berinima

    Berinima Ascendant

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    Bind on equip would be fine, it's bind on pickup (at least in the earlier dungeons) which sucks.
     
  10. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    Equipments are for equipping so one can benefit on the Stats that they provide. If one is to wear an Equipment, it's completely removed from the Economy. People need to understand what a "Tangible Asset" is -- it is something that has an 'exchange' value! Anything physical that you would regard as "Asset" needs to be able to be Traded, otherwise it has no economic value!
    You cannot call something that is untradeable an "Asset" because it can never be evaluated because it can never be exchanged! Even Intangible Assets can be Traded in real-life!

    Second of all, have anyone seen the Enhancement System? Gear Progression of this game is nothing but Vertical! When you transfer an Enhancement to another Gear of the same type (Armor to Armor, Weapon to Weapon), you can transfer all the Enhancement Level except that you will lose 1 Enhancement Level for every Tier difference between the 2 Gears. This is how Gear Progression works in this game! When Enhancement is removed from a Gear (as a result of Extraction or Transfer), that Gear will be destroyed completely (you can't Trade it anyway!).

    Third, we don't have a Barter System because we don't have direct Player-to-Player Trading. What does it mean? The entire Economy works through Monetary System in terms of Transactions, with 35% Sales Tax (5% if you have Account Premium). The difference is the Transaction, in which we are only limited to Monetary!
    Barter = Goods : Goods , Goods : Goods
    Monetary = Money : Goods , Goods : Money ---------> with the Tax for every Sales

    Fourth, Cash Shop Items are tradeable in the Auction House. This just made the game Pay to Win! If you can buy something to progress faster, and this system facilitates that, it is Pay to Win! You can believe whatever definition of Pay to Win you want, you can believe it to be something else (as if using a different term removes the fact that you are paying to gain advantage), I am not gullible! What I cannot accept is their Monetization affecting Gameplay!

    I cannot accept this so-called "Economy", it is ridiculous! That is just one of the bad aspects of why I quitted this game! (I have more reasons)
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  11. YOLO

    YOLO Ascendant

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    thats similar to the way BDO worked initially, about a year or 6 months after official release you will get some sort of "montly subscription" thing wich will allow you to not recover prt of the taxes you pay for selling the item....oh wait i just read the ending note of your post, it seems you already have it ROFL, well the next thing you can wait is buying costumes with a weekly limitation and melting them to obtain so sort of special items that will easy the enhancing of your gear (just as in BDO), wich after few months will ofc be enhanced greatly with some other more direct p2w options, well what to say guys, good luck, with PA as your distributor you are gonna need it (mark my words)
     
  12. löngun illi

    löngun illi Ascendant

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    So a couple of points that I think are important to note here.

    1. quitting a game from frustration over features that aren't final seems a bit absurd

    2. I would say one benefits to a class-specific loot system is that it has the potential to have players try different classes.

    3. There are obvious drawbacks to the current system. I do feel, and this is my opinion, that the current setup could be better by what I gather. At the same time, some games suffer from easy access to rare or special equipment due to every class being able to get drops. it seems the economy of the game is set up to benefit the rarity of items so that they are truly special and not just auction house spam for easy credits. this means items would be much more valuable to a person or buyer.

    4. Keep in mind that you were given beta access to help test features, so help test and voice an opinion with the creators. Maybe they will change something you don't enjoy. Don't just quit as you wasted Beta access that someone else could have used to test the game and benefit all that play.

    I hope you all have a great day!
     
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  13. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    "Aren't final" but most likely will not change or will not change significantly nor even comparatively enough to make any difference. At this point, it's not really about the conclusion (as we never got to that event yet) but the probability that there will be enough improvements to rectify this game. I cannot predict the future with accuracy but I can reasonthat's exactly what I'm doing here! I've learned a lot from my experience in the past being burned out so many times already. I want you to reason with me: what do you think is the probability that this game can turn itself around? It speaks for itself and to not notice this is the true absurdity!

    Class-specific loot system, npc-shop system, and crafting systemthat's 3 things by the way. How are you gonna try other classes if everything that you can obtain is specific to your class and the game lacks class specialization? I can't see the incentive!

    First of all, I addressed the tradeability in this game in that all equipments worn once can never be unbounded. Furthermore, you can transfer the enhancements to better equipments in that the old equipments will be destroyed (you can't trade them anyway). This is vertical gear progression on a specific class on a game that lacks liquidity.

    "Items would be much more valuable to a person" is what is defined as "psychological value" or "sentimental value" in that it is only unique to an individual. This is different from "market value" and "economic value" as these measurements of value are not defined and not limited only to an individual. These 2 values that we use in trading do not exist in this game regarding equipments as they lack liquidity. How can you talk about value and at the same time not look at liquidity? If you cannot trade a diamond, it has no trading value no matter how much you would like to evaluate it for.

    I would like to help by giving my own feedback and suggestions that is not only unique to mine but other players as well that share similar playstyle. I haven't been that vocal but these people that share the same opinions as mine have been complaining for years now, and guess what, nothing is changing regarding the Fantasy-themed MMORPG genre that is by the way the same clone of each other. They didn't listen at all for over a decade now, they are not listening at all, and they will never listen! After being burned out so many times, why should I remain optimistic? People jumped into MMO into another MMO into Bless with the same optimism and look what happened. I am not setting my expectations too high for A:IR after everything I have tested from the Closed Beta and given that the publisher is Kakao Games and the developer is Krafton Game Union (both being Korean sales-oriented companies that don't have good reputation).

    Why should I remain faithful to A:IR given that I have no trust in these companies and there are other upcoming competitions that suit my playstyle and preferences better? I gave up on A:IR because the upcoming competitions that are Space-themed offer a better product and service, it's as simple as that! I also gave up on Fantasy-themed MMOs which I see no future of because all of them are dumbed-down and Pantheon is hopeless because of the lack of funding.

    I gave up solely because I have optionsbetter options that I took the time to consider!
     
  14. löngun illi

    löngun illi Ascendant

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    Hey again Eternal, hope you are well.

    I think any game can make changes for the better with a quick note to the fact that any change will have players that don't agree with that change. It's also important to note that at late stage development what seems like a simple change is actually a cascade of changes to mechanics that takes a long time to balance and test. There is a fine line between testing or fixing and pushing development for profit. It's an unfortunate reality that companies often have strict deadlines driven by a budget, this, in turn, means that no game is released without some type of drawback or shortcoming.

    I am by no means saying that the in-game economy is great, it could always be better. I agree that class specific loot and AH access is a bit much and adding bind on equip on top of all that is over the top. I will say however I do favor promoting the rarity of specific items in-game using restrictive features as a plus. maybe not using the above listed all at once though. I will say that I feel class specific loot should remain as well as bind on equip but the AH should be open with no restrictions.

    market prices are driven by demand, demand stems from the overall "want" for an item so to say that players desire for an item doesn't affect the price is incorrect. the overall desire for an item sets its value regardless of how much the item is really worth. IE if I have a weapon that given normal circumstances is worth say 5k to an NPC that only cares about a set value for an item (what its really worth according to the game) but to someone who wants to buy it from me for say 500k then on average the AH price based on demand is 500k.

    Eternal, you knew who was developing the game when you signed up to test. Citing who the developers are as a reason to stop testing is, in the simplest term, preconceived. Don't take this the wrong way as I'm not trying to insult you or attack you, but rather give my honest opinion. Your reasoning for quitting seems lazy and convenient allowing you an exit while at the same time making as much noise as you can on your way out in the form of a biased opinion of a developer on a game that isn't final while referencing your options for other games. It's true the developers make the game, but it's the players who make the community. I hope you decide to stick around and strive for change and help the community work with the developers to shape the game in a positive light.

    I'm looking forward to your response Eternal

    have a good day :D
     
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