Can you guess the price of game?

Discussion in 'Gameplay Discussions' started by RedBandit, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. RedBandit

    RedBandit Ascendant

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    Alright folks!

    we have been waiting this game for a long time. it is time to guess the price of this game. i think it is getting expensive by time because of the inflation lol. I think it will be around 30 dolar (for standart or minimum packpage). For maximum packpage, i guess 70 dolar for it. so i ask you guys, what price should be for this game?
     
  2. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    You mentioned "inflation", so I'm guessing you know a little bit about how economy works. Aside from that, I am disappointed with your thinking-process.

    This game is already being advertised as 'Free-to-Play', so when this game comes out, it will have that Business-Model. Why you asked? Because before you do the Marketing and Advertisement for your Product, you have to know what your target Customer/s is/are. In this case, they are not aiming for the Sophisticated/Analytical-Customers (this game is not being designed for those type of Customers), their main target are the Impulsive Customers and Discount/Cheap Customers. Anyone who don't spend money on a Free-to-Play-game are not really Customers yet, we call them "Potential Customers" (the keyword here is "Potential". When they start to spend money, only then can they ever turn to an 'Actual'-Customer!). They are not targeting Value Buyers, they are not targeting Loyal Price Buyers (because we all know Free-to-Play-games are more expensive in the long-run should they remain loyal!), their main target are the Price Buyers who will spend money on the game (whether they can retain them or not) and maintaining the pool of Potential Customers (which they will try their best to convince them to spend).

    You can't ask for Value in terms of the Product and Business-Model, when you already know that they are not marketing based on Value. I'm not the one you call a "Price Buyer", I'm the one you call a "Value Buyer" (we are the Sophisticated and Analytical type). We look for Value, not typically Price (and based on what I see here, this game is not what we are looking for and not what we will spend on). Put this in your mind that the Marketing of this game shapes the Design of the Product and it's Business-Model. If you actually learned Marketing, no Salesperson will try to target all types of Customers with a single Product (that's not possible!), they target 'specific' Customers!

    If they make this game Buy-to-Play, do you know how much money they will lose from their target Customers? Potential Customers (we may call them useless or not) are very important for them to retain and Buy-to-Play-model will gate them (keep them away) from the game. If the Price Buyers do not remain loyal (and likely they will not), they need the Potential Customers that have potential to replace the non-retainable Price Buyers. Buy-to-Play requires more commitment, I already told you that a game designed like this is not aimed towards Loyal Customers. If not many of us will remain loyal (and I may not even try this game!), then they need to make money in the short-term from the Price Buyers, and since not many of them are retainable, they need to retain the Potential Customers by keeping this game Free-to-Play and try to convert them to spend.

    The concept of not having a Mandatory Subscription is the thing that lures Price Buyers to this game thinking that the game is cheaper. These people do not stay for long, or plays the game casually, therefore their concept of Value is based on their Playtime : Price. That is their perception which is not even based on the deal, it's based on their personal utility! Do not expect that you can continue to milk these type of Customers for money, but more of these people can make it up. When a game is F2P, the game will never run out of these Price Buyers (even in Revelation Online now).

    My realistic guess, with a game designed like this, it will be Free-to-Play, it will sell Founder's Packs around the price-range that you mentioned or highly likely even way more than that (because these deals are not mainly for the Price Buyers, they are for the Impulsive Buyers and impulsive-people do not question Value nor Price), they will certainly have a Cash Shop, an optional Premium (to milk the loyal-playerbase), and likely, it will also be Pay-to-Progress, Pay-to-Convenience, whatever the **** you call them, to squeeze money from the Impulsive Buyers (a Cash-Shop exclusive to Cosmetics aimed towards Price Buyers and Impulsive Buyers is not enough to make an income from this game!)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You asked for my guess, I will answer your question!

    Founder's Packs:
    Standard Edition = $29.99 (bait for the Price Buyers) ~ $39.99
    Deluxe Edition = $79.99 ~ 99.99
    Collector's Edition = $179.99 (similar to Bless' and people actually paid for it) ~ 199.99
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  3. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    If a game is not designed for quality and long-term, then do not expect Players to be retainable. A Playerbase can be retainable if they can replace Players. This is the reason why they keep an MMO Free-to-Play (think of Ponzi Scheme, if no new Customers come in, where most current paying-Players are not retainable, it's not sustainable). Did you actually expect Players will continue to spend on a game that don't have Mandatory Subscription and a game designed for short-term profit (expensive Cash Shop Items on an MMO with Content-Paywalls in comparison to Sub-based-MMOs)? They will spend but they will not continue to spend (it's cheaper in the short-term, you can even choose to spend nothing if you choose to, but it's very expensive if we are speaking long-term for Players 'with commitment'!). This is why it's important for them to keep the game open to Potential Customers because they have to replace them.

    They will make money from this game even if Players will not remain loyal. Why? Like I said, they are replaceable. Players are not retainable, but the playerbase is (if influx of F2P-Players can be maintained).

    If you do not see it, then open your eyes! They are milking a lot of money here while also delivering the least value! Still, you people will continue to not learn even after 10 years of burn-out after burn-out, so I will not even wonder why the MMO-Industry continue and will continue to remain as it is.

    The equation here is so simple!
    Value (according to Customers' perspective) = Quality / Cost

    In order to get a higher value given if price differences are the same, they need to deliver better quality than the inferior-quality that we continue to receive! You cannot keep asking for higher prices without delivering better quality! (what's worse is you continue to give us below-standard quality with unbelievable price)

    We the Consumers could not even assert ourselves, this is why the Industry will continue to remain as it is! We are very stupid that we didn't learn anything from more than a decade of unjustifiable Value! After the failure of Bless, you idiots still bought into the Early Access of Atlas with minimum to no information about the game! It tells me that you have no concept of Value nor Quality! If majority of Gamers are like this, then the marketing of this game will work and you are their target Customers (Impulsive and Price Buyers). So what if you quit this game after already having spent? More will come in to replace you and do the same thing! This game does not need to convince us and show us Quality nor Value in order to make great retainable profit! The loop will continue to repeat itself, and this time, I will no longer take part in it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  4. Lynn Park

    Lynn Park Ascendant

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    Eternal, you keep lecturing everyone about every little thing, even if that's completely aside from the topic. You're either really that narcissistic, or you feel the need to prove something.
     
  5. Kjjing

    Kjjing Ascendant

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    Perso, je viserais :
    Un pack standard à 30 € - 40 € , un milieu 45 € - 60 € et le collector à 100 € - 120 €.
    Le F2P je suis plus trop fan...Je préfère un B2P Style GW2 ou un systéme à la Teso. On verra bien...

    Meilleur vœux à tous !
    Espérons que année 2019 soit riche en surprise et en bonnes nouvelles. :D
    Souhaitons tout le bonheur possible et une belle réussite à l'équipe de A:ir pour mener à bien leur projet !
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  6. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    And another thing I forgot to mention, is if they keep this game Free-to-Play, chances are even if you haven't spent yet or stopped spending, the likelihood of you Price Buyers of staying in this game and continue to play it, is high because the game is free. Thus, as I already talked about, the game can continue to retain you as Potential Customers because paying is optional and you people only have the concept of Price. As long as you remain here, you have the potential to spend.

    And we got another smart person here talking about Buy-to-Play! Tell me, if running the game requires constant maintenance, does it matter if they charge for the box-price of the game or not? They still need to foster the expenses of running the game persistently! The game will still either need to be Pay-to-Play or Free-to-Play with Micro-transactions (or paid-DLC-fested) after asking for a box-price! So tell me, did it matter at all if there's a box-price or not? Idiot! Which MMO charges for box-price and that's it? None! So it's actually not a Business-Model for MMOs! If that's how you think, then all it takes is to pay for the fixed-price of a car and you can continue to use it perpetually without having to pay for any utility-costs (gas, maintenance, etc.).

    I am 100% certain here that you people have no concept of Value! It's always the Price that you people continue to cry about! Now, they are marketing for Price like almost all MMOs, paying is optional. It is you in the first place who wants them to market for Price and not for Value. And now you people are asking for Value in return and are not willing to support a Sub-Model in this genre? You people are a joke, and I will not wonder why this genre is the same as well!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  7. DixonButts

    DixonButts Ascendant

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    I think eternals mom never hugged him. Or he never got attention at home. 9 know goofballs like that irl we just ignore them. They draw their power from google and such internet shenanigans
     
  8. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    You speak to me as if I am a child. I am 25 years old and I don't live with my family (I live independently). In regards to personal-life (and you're the one who shifted this discussion to personal matters, not me!), that's as little as I can disclose. Again, "personal-life" is not one of our topic here. If you are here to make fun of my life, I can tell you now that I am better than you financially and credentially!

    As for the other person, I have nothing to prove here! What makes you think that is the case? Maybe you're the one who have that herd mentality! Unlike you, I don't focus on distractions, I focus on developing myself and creating value, not projecting myself. I'm a rational person, not emotional unlike you! Egoism, self-esteem, and peer pressure are not success as they don't return value. Without offering value to the market, you will never be successful. "Proving oneself" is not in my vocabulary, and certainly, I'm not the one here who brought it up.

    You people are a bunch of White-Knights that are no different than the White-Knights of Bless. You could not even reason, and when someone does and it conflicts your game, that person get's labelled as crazy. Tell me, where is your brain? I'm not the "goofball" here, you people are! You are even willing to turn your back on logic? It's called "ignorance". You should be thanking me, not criticizing me for lecturing an ignorant like you!

    "The game will costs nothing if it ended up bad and if it fails"
    ?
    Have you learned anything in life? Not only will it costs the total amount associated with the monetization of the game and external utility-costs to run the game, the game will also waste your time which we volunteered to dedicate that fraction to this hobby. Not only did that leisure not went to that activity, it went nowhere but to wasting time. Time is the most important resource ever available (it is convertible, but nothing else is convertible to time). Time is money! On months that you will waste trying this game and then finding out later that it is a complete waste of time, that game also costed you tens of thousands of dollars (that you could have otherwise made with that time) on top of other specified costs that I mentioned already. Look at the definition of the word "expenditure" and you will see that it is not only exclusive to money. You people do not have this concept! This game will costs us a lot if it will be nothing but a sheer waste of time in the end like Bless!

    It matters to learn the state of the game prior to making the decision to participate in it. You will not waste your time in the first place knowing already ahead that it's bad! That's called "valuing time"! To say that "we will try this game, and if it's bad, we'll just move on", is ignorance!
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  9. Lynn Park

    Lynn Park Ascendant

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    The way you phrased it just proves my point.

    As for your reply to the other guy, he never said anything about your age. He mocked your childhood, you just misunderstood. You really aren't as smart as you want to think.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  10. Insei

    Insei Ascendant

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    Okay, I just can't keep it anymore, I seen your reply in almost every post on this forum and your reasoning, along with your ego, made me to create an account, so I can reply to you. As a being with brain, I know it won't have any more effect, than giving you opportunity to actually write another essay, but w/e.
    Just because somebody respond to your unreasonable essays about everything, it doesn't mean that they are protecting game/company as a "White knights" that you stated, If you have issue with thinking what am I talking about, then go look for your essays of teaching us Chinese phrases when nobody ever asked for that.
    Quite bolt here... Not to mention that you wen't from single person questioning your childhood, to plural insult of everyone here.
    You kind of mixed this game with some important job, didn't you? Let me remind you of something.
    Games are made to play, play is part of "fun". Basically people are playing games for fun. Gaming was and always will be "waste of time" just to have fun.

    Now look at this image and if you don't see single wrong thing here, well then you are lost case.
    [​IMG]
     
    AsianBadger, Observant and CreativeX like this.
  11. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    It is correct that I have been very rhetoric on expressing my impressions, opinions, and suggestions regarding this game, often (if not, all the time) using figure of speech and other compositional references which you do not consider as "directly" related to the topic, even though to me it asserts my contents regarding the topic. Figure of speech is figure of speech! If you see something is failing, then there is a great chance that you are waiting for nothing! It means that time is passing by! Do I have to use a foreign saying or expression for you to understand what it means, such as using the reference of a withering flower to the lapse of time that we are spending waiting for nothing? It can be simpler said, "learn from the indications! You don't wanna waste time!"
    If you don't like my use of reference to the Chinese, then I'll go use English. We have a saying in English "to wait for a lifetime". We don't age without showing signs such as wrinkling of skin. Tell me, is this enough of an indication already for you to have the awareness of the time or would you rather wait until the end of your life-cycle which is the oblivion? You do not continue to wait when you already know that you are waiting for nothing! Waiting for a lifetime, means waiting until a particular point which is the duration of a person's life! It means waiting for nothing because you will not live to see it, it's the same thing!

    This is not only applicable to this game, it is applicable to the genre as well in which year-after-year, we continue to wait only to be disappointed again-and-again! Tell me, are we learning anything after everything that already happened to this genre? It can be said in the simplest way; "This game better be worth waiting! We will not wait for nothing and available indications can give us a foreshadow! The flawed designs of this game should be remarkable in your skin already!"

    My essays maybe are very rhetoric, but my point has always been there! To call it "unreasonable" is something that I highly disagree on!

    I cannot forgive this game should it not meet our expectations after everything that have already happened to this genre!

    1.) My point has always been there to design this game to be 'true' to the genre for the audience of this genre!
    2.) My point has always been there that this game looks the same as other Modern-MMOs that came before it!
    3.) My point has always been there that this genre has been a failure for over a decade already and that the situation will never change should designs remained the same!
    4.) My point has always been there that we can no longer afford to waste time, to be forgiving, to be inattentive to details, facts, and situations, on a genre where everything in the market are literally clones and follow the same Modern principle designs that are regarded as failures already that lead to the decline of the quality of the genre!
    5.) My point has always been there that we want 'a change' and not the same Modern design, and if this isn't the case, the Kickstarters wouldn't even exist and garner massive support from the audience of this genre!

    Gaming is just for fun, you are correct on that! But if we are speaking of genres and game designs, fun is subjective to the audience, their preferences, and playstyle. Designing a game for fun is not as easy as you think because it is subjective! Correct delivery through proper design of the game to their target audience is the way to do it! If you designed an MMO looking like a Battle Royale, do you think it will appeal to the audience of MMOs? Do you think they will have fun with the game the same way others found it to be fun? This is why games are broken-down in to genres, people have different preferences! Stick to the fundamentals of the genre if you want to appeal to the audience of that genre! You cannot appeal to all types of audiences, it's impossible!

    The way you speak of fun is as simple to you as dumbing-down this game! Fun to me is the correct delivery of the game to their target audience! Instancing, solo-play, Instant-gratification, and over-simplification are not the way to deliver to the audience of this genre!

    Tell me, am I not making sense to you or you cannot see the sense?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  12. Observant

    Observant Ascendant

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    TL;DR?
     
  13. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    And this is why they have to over-simplify this game! A lot of Millennials (and I am 25 years old) do not like to read, put efforts, nor apply critical-thoughts. What do you think will happen if they turn this game to a Sandbox, add Intellect-based, or have Horizontal contents? Will the Millennials of today be able to cope, or the genre itself has to cope to them, and this is why this genre is the way it is now?

    You have a lifetime to wait for this game! This game is not coming out within this year! Why not read these simple paragraphs which do not contain complex contents while we wait?

    Or tell me, you're only used to reading short text-messages?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2019
  14. Lynn Park

    Lynn Park Ascendant

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    It's one thing to write an essay because you have so many thoughts you just can't get them out in a paragraph.
    It's another thing to write a novel around a point you could've got across in two sentences.

    Also, I don't see your problem with solo-dungeons. It makes the game more appealing for some people, and you shouldn't worry (unless it makes the studio focus on multiplayer aspects less, which I doubt). They've already spent a lot of time on this game, compared to how much they intended to spend on it (considering what they wanted to be the first western CBT was planned for q1 2018 if I remember correctly), yet instead of throwing a half assed cash-grab at their audience, they kept working on it, and rather delayed it.
    If it still becomes a flop at the end, then honestly, solo dungeons won't be the only thing to blame for that.
     
  15. Insei

    Insei Ascendant

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    Well, It's not like your whole post is Nonsense, though there is not much of sense in it.
    Like I said, unnecessary phrases, doesn't matter if it is written in English or Chinese, there is no need to write them, as they are irrelevant for both the game and topic.
    What you are doing, is forcing "your" own opinions on us. I'm not saying, that you are not allowed to, but there is topic of "suggestion".
    As someone who write like smart person, you should be old enough to understand what "flaming" trend is. Often going off-topic, lecturing people, spreading your opinions as they are holy.., just because game pick "Tab targeting", doesn't mean that the game is trash. There are people with preferences and simply saying (be it by my way or it is fail), doesn't really show intellect of person in his mid-twenties.

    Well, I hope the game will come out, as you wish it to be. I'll be happy if the game will be fun, in my own way.
     
  16. Eternal

    Eternal Ascendant

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    On everything I posted, I actually criticized this game for choosing to go for Action-targeting Combat on the Armaments of the Mechs, Stationary Anti-Air-defence, and Airships. The Avatar Combat is Tab-targeting but those things that I mentioned are not Tab-targeting as I observed from the gameplay-videos. The choice of Action-targeting is what I was criticizing as I see it as a way to please the majority in the expense of technical tradeoffs. The game will be heavily Instanced because of the choice of Combat and it will limit large-scale battles.

    Let's face it, this game is intended to be a PVP-MMO with some PVE, but this is majorly a PVP-MMO! They are advertising this game as a Realm vs Realm PVP-MMO. They called this game Ascent: Infinite Realm because of the infinite, unending (meaning "persistent") war of Realms. I am willing to accept this game as a PVP-MMO but I am not willing to accept it if they will under-deliver on the PVP-aspects!

    To sacrifice large-scale battles for a limited and Instanced 100 vs 100 Realm vs Realm to have Action-Combat on the Armaments of the Mechs, Stationary Anti-Air-defence, and Airships on a 'PVP-MMO' is a joke! Look at Revelation Online, they have unlimited Open-world (non-Instanced) Clan-Wars which in the Chinese-Server can peak at x000 vs x000. Do you think the game can do that if it went for Action-targeting Combat?

    I am very much in favor of Tab-targeting Combat, not the other way around. Also, I hate how "rhythmic" the Combat of this game is.

    Look at Eve Online, Dual Universe, Archeage, and Camelot Unchained, they chose non-Instanced large-scale battles, because really, that is what a Massive Multiplayer Online is. Any limited Multiplayer-game can have an Action Combat, and if that's all I'm looking for, I would be playing those instead!

    I am not impress on the PVP of this game which is 100 vs 100 Instanced Realm vs Realm! I don't like the tradeoffs that they made only for the game to be akin to a limited Multiplayer!
     
  17. Astaroth

    Astaroth Ascendant

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    It'll probably cost the same as other mmo early access has the last several years. Since it's going to be Kakao, you could probably guess what it'll cost based on Bdo.
     
  18. Necrit

    Necrit Ascendant

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    the same as bdo when it came out, and before ftp...xD
     

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